Q: What about substances in the world and God? Biblically, I know that we, as Christians, are supposed to lead by example and that we are to always be in our “right/sober” mind. But why is this? If I am responsible with my actions and don’t put myself or others in danger, why is this so bad? I know in the bible it says to obey the law of the land in all aspects unless it goes against the morals of Christianity. Of course under-age drinking and smoking marijuana are both against the law. But I don’t understand how the government can allow me to choose who is going to be the next leader of our country but they won’t let me go out and have a beer or hang out in my house and smoke a plan (sic) that grows in the dirt. I understand that the majority of people under the drinking age would not be responsible after drinking and some people may not be responsible after smoking marijuana, but how is it right to put these restrictions on me and judge me without even knowing me? I pray; I spend time with God and I am trying to do so more often. I also know that it says in 1 Peter 4:7 to be sober in spirit for the purpose of prayer. But I think this is pointed more toward clearing our minds for prayer and to not be distracted. I have prayed after drinking and I have prayed after smoking. My prayer is sometimes more sincere after smoking than it is sober.
I am not trying to justify under-age beer drinking and pot smoking. I am trying to educate myself on things that I have been taught were wrong but I don’t quite have an understanding of why they are wrong. Is it ignorant for me to continue these things and even think that they might be able to be okay with God or is it ignorant for others to believe what they have been told to believe without doing any research?
A: You have a lot of questions to contend with here: drinking, obedience to authorities, drugs, etc. I will do my best to cover all of them.
First of all, if you consider the government to be inconsistent with laws doesn't give you license to pick and choose which ones you want to obey. For a while I have had a difficult time with the fact that out government sends 18 year-olds to war but won't let them buy a beer. But, these are the laws that the authorities have put into place, and the Bible - as you pointed out - is pretty clear that we need to obey those authorities. So while I agree with you that there are inconsistencies there, obedience is still required on our part. I don't like that the IRS comes knocking every year, but it doesn't mean I don't have to pay my taxes (doggone it!).
But why are they against the law? You asked: I understand that the majority of people under the drinking age would not be responsible after drinking and some people may not be responsible after smoking marijuana, but how is it right to put these restrictions on me and judge me without even knowing me? It is ridiculous to expect the government to go out and survey each individual to find out what they can and can not handle, which it sounds like you are advocating by saying that they need to know you before putting restrictions on you. What the government tries to do is make laws to protect the individuals in that jurisdiction. They are looking out for the greater good. And the fact of the matter is that alcohol and drugs do affect the majority of people, and oftentimes in harmful ways. You started with the premise that you are responsible with your actions and don't put yourself and others in danger. That is a faulty premise because when you start drinking/doing drugs, you become less and less responsible with your actions. Your judgments are affected by the drugs in your system. So while you might feel like you are starting out responsibly, your responsibility decreases.
A side story: I have alcoholism in my family. Do you think my family members went out and said, "Hmmm, I think I'll become an alcoholic/drug addict. That would be cool."? Of course not. They started out 'drinking responsibly,' but as they went along, their responsibility went down in a hurry.
Another thing to take into consideration is your stage of life. As a teenager, a few things are true of your development. First, your brain is still developing. Your frontal lobes, which control self-control and judgment, are still developing and will be until your mid-20's. This says that a teenager doesn't make the best judgment calls (like choosing to drink or do drugs because it's not hurting anyone). That could be part of the reason for the laws as we have them. And second, because it is still developing, the teenage brain is more susceptible to the negative affects of alcohol, particularly on memory and learning. Studies have shown negative cognitive effects in those who have used/abused alcohol, even weeks after they have stopped using. Maybe the law is there and the command from God is there to protect you (and your brain).
The Bible does talk a lot about being sober-minded and self controlled. As a matter of fact, drunkenness and self-control are for all intents and purposes contrasted in Galatians 5 in the discussion of the acts of the sinful nature (drunkenness) and the fruit of the Spirit (self-control). I could go into exposition on each of the verses in the Bible that cover drunkenness/soberness/self-control. But rather than do that, I will try to summarize with a question that I think can be derived from many of the verses: Which would you prefer to be controlled by, the alcohol/drugs or the Holy Spirit? That seems to be the distinction made throughout Scripture.
Monday, February 4, 2008
Alcohol, Drugs, and Teenagers
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18 comments:
This is such a great discussion and it is something that has been on my own heart lately.
Why is it so wrong to be drunk? I mean, yes i would like much more to be controlled by the holy spirit, but He has already filled me, so He wont ever leave, right? And also, i agree that drinking is a sin, because the Bible says not to stumble around like a drunken fool. But we also sin ALL THE TIME, whether we know it or not. Our thoughts, the things we say and the things we do. We lie, cheat, steal, and hurt others all the time because we are broken people. A sin is a sin, and it is all the same in God's eyes (whether you murder or drink, or lie, its all the same). The Bible also says in Hebrews 10:26 that "those who deliberately keep on sinning after recieving the knowledge of the Truth, what sacrafice for sins is left?" Ok, so if we keep on sinning, doing bad things after recieving Jesus, then there is nothing left for us. So we sin deliberately all the time, whether that is lying, cheating or stealing, whatever. Then we repent these sins in prayer, and if we truly mean it (and God will know that or not because He knows each and everyone of us), then we are ok, in the sense that we are forgiven. SO if we do drink and get drunk, then we repent and sincerly mean it, then we are ok, right? But i also know that if you are truly living for God, then you will not want to drink/ get drunk, so does that mean i am just living for myself if i want to drink? And how can i stop that from happening or convince my other "christian friends" to stop?
Bottom line: drinking is a sin, we sin all the time, so what makes drinking so different?
Dear Anonymous-
What you are talking about here is the problem with grace. God freely pours out his grace and mercy on us when we don't deserve it. He allows us to receive forgiveness and to be brought into a right relationship with Himself when we are far from deserving of such a gift. The temptation is to say, "Well, if God is going to forgive me, why can't I just live how I want?" That's essentially what you are asking. Paul addressed this question is Romans 6. He asks, "Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?" His answer: "By no means." The reason is that when we come into that relationship with Jesus, we are now dead to sin, that that old way of life is to be put behind us so that we can now live for Jesus instead of our own desires.
Let me put it another way. I am a married man. My wife is a very forgiving woman. Knowing that, what's the big deal if I go out and cheat on her (which I would NEVER do, by the way - this is strictly hypothetical)? I mean, she's going to forgive me, so it's no problem, right? I can just go live how I choose. Ridiculous! But that's the same thing.
Or how about this: Since I know God's going to forgive me anyway (as you said) and a sin is a sin (as you said), what the big deal if I go out and rob a bank or kill someone? God's going to forgive me, right? Now that's crazy talk!
The point is, when you become a follower of Christ you become just that, a follower of Christ. You put your desires behind you and press on doing your best to follow His desires for your life. I believe that part of this means being sober/self-controlled so that the Spirit can work and guide you. Will we goof up and sin? Yes. That's where the forgiveness comes in. So it comes down to, do you really want to follow Jesus, or do you just want to do what you want to do?
Another question you have to ask yourself is, are you truly repentant when you ask for forgiveness? It sounds like you are going into the situation - being drunk - with the attitude that it's no big deal and that God is going to forgive you anyway. So are you really sorry afterwards, or are you just covering your bases when you ask for forgiveness? Repentance means not only asking for forgiveness, but turning around and walking the other way. It sounds like you just want to keep walking the same direction, but with the assurance that God will say, "No problem," when you say, "Sorry." That's not true repentance.
I hope this helps...
THANK YOU!
Kinda makes you wonder why God put marijuana's beautiful ass on planet earth to begin with, doesn't it?
Since the bible makes no direct comment on marijuana, as long as you do it legally, (Amsterdam, baby; also as long as you do it at home, California, Colorado, etc.)you can get as high as you want.
Smoke up baby, God put it on earth for us to wake and bake.
side note: Plus being high makes God that much more believable.
Yes, God created the marijuana plant. He also created the human body to make excrement. Using your logic, I guess one should roll that and smoke it, too?
Not to mention the countless plants that cover the earth that are poisonous: oleander, rosary pea, lily-of-the-valley, and so on. Just because it exists doesn't mean we should put it in our bodies...
So, PastorRon, would that then be a 'doodie doobie'? Sorry, had to say it. Just couldn't resist...
You may want to think twice before smoking anything that may do your body harm. The bible mentions the body being God’s temple and if anyone should destroy it, God will destroy them. If God wanted us to get high to understand him, then why would he have made marijuana harmful to our body (Gods temple)?
PS. After reading this post, it may be time to quit smoking weed. Especially any badass weed pastor Ron is referring too. :-)
There is no evidence that marijuana is bad for our bodies. I'm a Christian yet i think that smoking marijuana is just part of growing up, and, in reality, marijuana is no more harmful than the occasional beer. The studies on marijuana are all biased, and either support the legalization of marijuana or support keeping the use and distribution of marijuana criminalized.
I invite anyone to tell me a time when the responsible use of marijuana has killed someone.
P.S. moderation is a virtue.
Isn't the statement "the studies on marijuana are all biased" itself biased? "All" the studies are biased? Surely, somewhere along the line an objective study has been done.
Consider these excerpts from a paper at the Harvard Law School.
"Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells.
Studies further suggest that marijuana is a general "immunosuppressant" whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smoker’s body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. "killer cells") and the all-important T-cells..."
"The main respiratory consequences of smoking marijuana regularly (one joint a day) are pulmonary infections and respiratory cancer, whose connection to marijuana use has been strongly suggested but not conclusively proven. The effects also include chronic bronchitis, impairment in the function of the smaller air passages, inflammation of the lung, the development of potentially pre-cancerous abnormalities in the bronchial lining and lungs, and, as discussed, a reduction in the capabilities of many defensive mechanisms within the lungs.
Marijuana smoke and cigarette smoke contain many of the same toxins, including one which has been identified as a key factor in the promotion of lung cancer. This toxin is found in the tar phase of both, and it should be noted that one joint has four times more tar than a cigarette, which means that the lungs are exposed four-fold to this toxin and others in the tar..."
"In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.
In addition, marijuana use has many indirect effects on health. Its effect on coordination, perception, and judgment means that it causes a number of accidents, vehicular and otherwise."
For the Christian the issue is not just the effect marijuana has on the body but the effect it has on the mind and spirit. When a person is high, they are not fully in control of themselves. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is self control. The only One we are to yield control to is the Holy Spirit, not a drug.
There is no scientific consensus on the possible risks of marijuana. Moreover, who do you think gives Harvard the money to carry out such research?
I can tell you this, the ACP (American College of Physicians) has finally stood up and said that marijuana is not the antichrist and should not be included as a Schedule I drug.
Good job cherry-picking (What christians are good at) from Harvard's site; allow me to cherry-pick from the same site as Pastor Ron,
"I must preface these statements with the remark that there is still a great deal of research to be done concerning the effects of marijuana on the health of humans due to the fact that widespread marijuana use has only become prevalent in this country within the last three decades, so the effects of long-term use are just beginning to become apparent. I should also add that in making these observations, I have concentrated on the risks of smoking natural marijuana, since it is the most effective method of ingesting its active cannabinoids.
Marijuana has often been touted as one of the safest recreational substances available. This is perhaps true; many reputable scientific studies support the conclusion that cocaine, heroine, alcohol, and even cigarettes are more dangerous to the user’s health than marijuana. In addition, the celebrated pharmacological properties of cannabis have led thirty-six states to permit its use as a therapeutic drug for, among others, those suffering from AIDS; various painful, incurable and debilitating illnesses; the harmful side effects of cancer chemotherapy, and glaucoma. Additional research is being conducted concerning the use of marijuana on the treatment of anxiety and mental disorders."
If someone would like to read the full report, here it is: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/
evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
Here is a part Michael and I both left out that bridges the two. It immediately follows the section you quote:
"Nonetheless, it would be fallacious to conclude that because the chemicals in marijuana have been found to present fewer dangers than some very harmful substances, the medical or recreational use of marijuana is perfectly safe. In a recreational context, marijuana has been shown to affect health, brain function, and memory. And in a medical context, marijuana is like any other powerful prescription drug: it has potentially dangerous side effects, and the decision to use it to treat patients must involve the same balancing test as the one required for chemotherapy or AZT: do the therapeutic effects of the drug outweigh its harmful effects? Though there are many more studies to be done on this issue, current data shows that the answer to this question may not always be yes."
I pulled quotes to keep the post to a minimum, not to "cherry pick." For a person who is serious about their health, they will take the study to heart. (The fact that pot has four times the tar of cigarettes should be enough to cause anyone pause; that is, if they want to avoid lung cancer.) For a person who is committed to smoking marijuana, no amount of evidence will suffice.
This post's original intent was to answer the question about marijuana usage and the Christian. The point continues to be that self-control is a fruit of the spirit. If a person is high on marijuana, they are not fully in control of themselves. The only One worthy of giving control over is the Holy Spirit.
Marijuana has 4x the amount of tar as a cigarette yet many reputable scientific studies have shown that cigarettes are worse for you? What?
I agree with the anonymous poster, it's all propaganda. I've heard claims that marijuana does not cause lung cancer; I've heard marijuana does not effect cognitive abilities; I've heard claims that being intoxicated under the effects of marijuana doesn't affect your driving.
Interesting fact: the claim that marijuana makes you less intelligent is regarded as a lie by most experts on the subject.
I can't comment on the religious aspect of using marijuana, I had just seen the post about all the harmful side-effects of using marijuana and figured I'd help out. You could always convert to Rastafarianism! I have!
Once you've decided to convert, I can help you with all of your concerns about pot.
Look me up at:
http://www.theproblemwithpot.blogspot.com.
The purpose of the blog is to provide a safe place to dialog about questions of weed faith and doubt, weed, and dreadlocks. It is driven by questions submitted at LA BONG church during our current series, "the problem with pot."
michael: your last two comments are direct evidence against your point that "marijuana makes you less intelligent." If it doesn't make you less intelligent, it certainly makes you less of an adult.
You didn't have to hide your name, man. So, okay, sorry about bringing a little light-hearted joke into the conversation. I'm telling you, pot does not make you stupdi... Wait... What was I talking about?
Michael: Thanks for the help in making our points!
Seriously, I pray that you discover joy apart from chemical props. The joy God offers you in Christ far surpasses anything drugs have to offer.
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